IndyMill

Was unaware of this until today. Yet another ~$1000 DIY mill/router. And it does not only wood, but also aluminum.

It seems the $1000 range is getting pretty crowded but truly low cost while being capable is still pretty sparse.

I don’t want to crap on this guy because he did build something, which is better than nothing, but I think it’s becoming clear that anyone can throw together ball screws and linear rails to make a CNC machine.

I have not watched that vid yet.

With the current price of linear rails things are much easier on the wallet. Screw them to any semi flat surface and you are half way there. Ballscrews are amazing and the price is coming down significantly for short ones. Anything over 2’ stills seems expensive to ship and buy.

Ball screw do need maintenance and adjustment to minimize backlash when used bidirectionaly. I will have to get some to see how often and how easy this is. I would suggest keeping them covered though.

I bought a bunch of linear rails to play with a while back couldn’t bring myself to spend on the ballscrews though.

I think there is a major update that could be made to that geometry that could help significantly. Maybe we should have a shot at it.

I’d chip in to help with a “Primo-Pro” (seriously and anonymously). It’s something I have thought about occasionally, you created the MPCNC, so why not use your abilities, and the vast resource that is this forum, to create a higher level machine? The MPCNC still has its niche (entry level, learning about CNC, learning to create stuff), but once one has a little experience, we might want to move to the next level, but we don’t want to disconnect from this incredibly fertile arena you’ve created.

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@jamiek I do actually give the kid some credit, he started with a “Dremel CNC” and he did a pretty good job of getting something together and testing it out and that version was quite inexpensive.

Agreed on true low cost and true capability being sparse, there is a reason I’m on these forums and not elsewhere

His original cnc had mostly 3d printed parts too. I originally printed the parts even though the parts didn’t print very well. Never made it too assembly as the parts didn’t inspire much confidence. Found MPCNC shortly after that…

This came up some time back. I was in the same camp as you. Since then, I’ve taken a (critical) look at things like tormach setups, built a 8x10 burley, just finished a larger primo. I’m going to rebuild the burly AS a primo (12x12) because that thing is damned impressive.
After watching a bunch of tormach videos, I’m not even sure what a mpcnc pro would look like. I’m not convinced that the tormach does really all that much different from the mpcnc, just deeper and faster. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about backlash, flex, etc., and more than a few complaints that it doesn’t cut aluminum “as well as expected” in terms of surface finish and accuracy.
Now, to be fair, I’m not a particularly imaginative person, so that’s on me, but I cut through some 1/8 mild steel on my teeny tiny burley, and I can’t wait until it cools off enough in my garage to start working on my car again just so I can look for something to fabricate out of steel. I just can’t think of anything else I’d want in a hobby cnc.

How much do you want to bet those not “as well as expected” gripes came after watching NYCNC videos and their industrial Haas beast chewing through blocks of aluminum like cheese (on take 3)?

The thing with CNC is diminishing returns kicks in real hard after an MPCNC. Twice the cost will not get you twice the job speed. I have a feeling twice the job speed is 5-10X more, each step. Even endmills have that same curve, $4-$6 each, next step is about $30 each. Look at the cost of a large machines collet or vise they start at $500.

I am not really excited to push into that level in any way. I get made when I break a $4 endmill, I would get pissed breaking a $30, let alone $200 one. I had to beg and borrow to get an $80 endmill for my first CNC project and it broke.

That particular format is saturated and the only reason I would approach it is I still have not seen one done with the twist I was thinking about…maybe that means it would not work.

I mean are we sure the Primo is not extremely similar in capabilities? I have not really dialed anything in after the last video? I can grab a 1/4" and see what happens.

I’m not sure about that at all. I’ve watched a lot of videos, and titans of cnc bought a Tormach a few months back just to make “relatable” videos for some of the viewers just starting out. That guy pushes everything as hard as he can, so I’d be surprised if the tormach will go much faster than they run it there.
I think he said it was 20k to set up like he has it. I might really like to clamp a chunk of aluminum in my machine, but I wouldn’t pay an extra 19.5k to do it.

I don’t really get the impression John is mowing through the material. Always talking about process reliability. He’s also usually pretty clear about when he’s on the tormach. I think it’s pretty easy for people to get their expectations up on ANY machine. Sure would be interesting to run a survey, though, and ask WHY people think the tormach should perform better.

:moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag:

Maybe. I mean, i think you’re not wrong, but like you said, lots of people watching YouTube and not understanding the difference between pro machines and prosumer machines.

The economics are harder too, because it is arguably about the same amount of design (possibly a bit less, because you can just buy your way out), but at most, 1/10th the customers. So each one has to effectively have 10x the overhead to pay for recurring R&D.

I think the real takeaway from my initial rhetorical question is this: (on take 3). I’m guessing that there are a number of newer users who aren’t used to the learning curve, and don’t realize how difficult it is to make that step from carving wood to metal. They don’t see the hours of trial and error already put in to dial in the settings for their machine, and that the “blooper reels” are actually part of the learning curve. If you watch them, you’ll notice that 90+% of them are of new techniques being tried (except AvE, I think he just likes to find new ways to combine sounds that mimic words). Of course, watching someone make the same cut 18 times to find the right F&S before letting their machine go on the full job would make for boring video, which is why you rarely see it, or it’s edited into a chibi montage that is easily glossed over.

I agree theres not much opportunity in treading old tired ground. It has all been done and the problems and benefits are pretty well known.

There are areas I see as undeveloped which are large Z, tool changing, and 5-axis, which no coincidence are the areas that draw my attention. I think tool changing on LR2 would be very interesting because it seems to be more of a workhorse, but sadly I have no room for a lowrider.

I think theres also opportunity in technology like variable feedrate based on a load cell, or closed loop operation that would cut, measure the part, and cut again. The idea being that smart, cheap tools can do the job of beefy dumb tools, just slower.

Plenty to do, but cloning an X-carve would not be on my list. If you want an X-carve, just buy one.

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Your comments on the X-carve I think are the best thing said here Jamie, I didn’t really picture it that way but you’re absolutely right.

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Man, Jamie is right WAY too often…

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Tell me about it. That’s my wife’s name, too…

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FWIW, my initials are JME.

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Close enough for government work!

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Also GOOD linear rails aren’t cheap.