Maybe just to add to my last couple sentences. I think fully open source would be easier to swallow for everyone if there was not a giant manufacturing country with access to free (government subsidized) shipping sitting ready to exploit any popular item. That would actually not be that horrible if they maintained a certain quality (hoverboard batteries, ramps 5V regulators), if they were in contact with the designer, if they contributed back to the designer in some way. If they just paid some sort of tiny fee per item shipped, we would be knocking down there doors trying to get them to source, build, and ship our projects! I want to make more things.
I can not completely dislike that, without them the MPCNC would cost three times as much if not more. Catch 22.
Artisan 3, Plastic Monstrosity, Piper 1. They’re all non commercial as well.
Why does this bother me?
The world is going to shit, and humans should help each other. Right now, hypothetical Juanita in some Favela needs money and has CNC skills. She could be selling this fantastic machine, which would help her, AND help Ryan… more eyeballs for bug fixes, more people needing support, more businesses willing to pay for it, more fame that might land you a kick ass gig, etc etc etc.
Ryan?
I’m willing to bet you don’t have a big “People are ripping me off” problem. Honestly, license or no, they could be doing it right now. You have a “Not enough people know about this awesome machine” problem.
You could be enabling all the Juanitas of the world, poor people all over, to make money for themselves using your machine. It would be a great gift to the world. It’s your right not to do so, but… it would HELP you. It’s Win/Win. Why NOT take it?
Can I send you a book written by Cory Doctorow about this exact issue? I’m serious. It’s sitting on my desk. I’ll mail it out this week.
Please understand where I’m coming from. This is a neat machine. I think it could do more and everything I’m saying is coming from a place of respect.
I can by a “clone” of his printers for $200. I did! His are $800 and up… and I have a limited budget (stupid children). He was never going to get my money, sorry… But he’s still THE Prusa, and his machines are still awesome (and better than my shitty clone, that’s for DAMN sure). He’s making money. He’s doing alright.
And honestly, if some guy in China started selling these, what can you do about it? Sue? Your legal department is NOT very large. It’s you, isn’t it? I could be selling these things all over Portland, you’d never know…
It’s your machine, your license. But sooner or later someone’s going to clone it, freely, and then what? No more Ryan’s Gift To The World. Hypothetical Juanita will be selling Bob’s (whatever) machine. Bob will have brought cheap and flexible CNC to the world, and empowered thousands of Juanitas. Yay Bob.
You really have much gain and nothing to lose.
I’m serious about that book by Cory Doctorow about this very issue. I’d really like to send it to you. Can I?
On a complete side note, I’m almost done with a vertical mpCNC. I’ll put it up when I’m there.
I do agree on the fact that if some guys in China want to copy your machine, there’s pretty much nothing you’d be able to do. They just don’t give a rat’s ass about intellectual property here. And basically, most people here don’t actually think there is anything wrong about copying someone else’s idea. Their position about this is that the one who can sell it better is the rightful winner, and that there is no point in having a good idea if you’re not able to spread it commercially, which, in my opinion, somehow kinda makes sense, even if it is morally debatable. Anyway, aside maybe forbidding it to sell in the USA, I’m pretty sure any action against Chinese copy would fail, for many, many reasons others than just not being open source.
Anyways, Ryan invented this machine, he doesn’t want to get it 100% open source, but he published more than enough material for anyone to be able to build his own machine for free, so I really don’t understand what is the actual problem besides a marketing appellation.
Seriously, I’ve started learning CAD this year and I’m pretty sure I could redesign the whole machine in less than one week from the STL files if I ever wanted. So if anyone actually needs some step file to do some mod he couldn’t do just from the STL ones, it’s really not a big deal, especially with more 3D design skills.
Just let it go dude, it doesn’t bother anyone but yourself.
I am in fact 75% of the way through designing another machine, using the same bearing linear rail design as well. I would even go far enough to argue that it’s open source in a sense that you can gain all the info you need from the stl’s themselves.
You say you want to have principles, sure, why not? Why can’t you let Ryan have his?
So let me have my principals, you have yours. I am not forcing anything on anyone.
We have heard each others point of view and neither of us have been convinced to convert. It really hurts my feelings that now you feel the need to devote your time to making OUR hard work comply with the license YOU want. We are all collectively okay with each others point of view and all just having a good time playing with our robots and learning from each others strengths. No one forces their point of view on anyone, we share to our comfort level.
I am truly saddened that you are not okay with me having my own point of view and you feel the need to attack my choice.
@tony, why don’t you just print out the pieces, build your machine, post a picture, and say thank you to Ryan for his awesome work, which you didn’t have to pay for.
If you want to contribute there’s tons of room in the Things You Have Made section, or just answer the loads of people needing help/troubleshooting.
What you’re really saying is just your principles should not be abandoned, Ryan should abandon his to fit yours. Slippery slope. Just enjoy the machine dude, go make some stuff.
You can do whatever you want. I don’t agree with you, obviously, but that’s not attacking your choice.
I haven’t forced anything on anyone. I’ve been trying to convince you, while heaping praise upon you for the cool machine and the work you do.
I actually teach a class on DIY CNC here in Portland by the way, and I have built a mpCNC to use an an example machine. I have started ACTIVELY showing off your machine to eager CNC learners. I’m driving newbies to your machine, and to you. That’s a funny method of attack. So… you’re not a victim here. Please don’t do that.
You picked a vaguely open source license, and you have reaped the benefits of sharing ALMOST everything. If you had picked a restrictive license, no one would be playing with your machine. You shared with the world. You’ve done good. Good job. Again, not attacking you. I’m trying to convince you to share just a little bit more, and to reap even MORE reward.
What everyone doesn’t seem to grasp here is that this IS going to be done. It’s just a matter of time. I’m just trying to make sure YOU get the credit. Somehow, that makes me a thief… !@#y !@# that.
If I sold Ryan’s CAD files, I would be stealing. If I printed mpCNC machines and sold them, I would be stealing. But doing my own design is not stealing, and I frankly resent the implication and wonder if some folks fundamentally misunderstand what’s going on here.
Ok. That’s true. There are some derivative designs (most give credit where it’s due). What I read, and some others may have also, is that your were going to trace the stls in the name of open source. If you’re going to add your own intellect to it, then go ahead.
At any rate, I don’t think anyone is being convinced. I’m here because I’m happy with v1 and how open it is.
I also think you could be a good friend here and think topic is just making enemies. Let’s just agree to disagree. No one wants to sure in the internet.
Ugh. That would be a gross violation of my principles. Also, illegal. Also, incredibly !@#$ing stupid, as it would encumber anything I did with copyright violations that would negate the entire point of what I’d want to do.
Well, I’m here because it’s a neat machine.
It doesn’t really matter if anyone is convinced. What will happen, will happen, convinced or no. /shrug.
I’m almost done with my vertical mpCNC. I have plenty of suggestions to feed back into the machine, and I will do so, even though my suggestions feed Ryan’s intellectual property instead of OUR intellectual property.
And I’ll continue to drive people to the machine, and the site, and Ryan, until something better and more free comes along.
