Well this is hard for me to listen to

https://makersontap.com/podcast/mot-067-printnc/

Thoughts?

So, yeah, they crap on the MPCNC a fair amount.

Machinists or machinist wannabes are always going to look down on “plastic” machines and feel pride in their “beefy” machines. More money can get you more stiffness, no surprise there. I think it’s easier to make a design that just buys stiffness with money compared to squeezing good performance out of a low-cost machine. So the pride is somewhat (but not completely) misplaced.

The other thing that’s fairly easy to miss is the community, and design for ease of assembly, which I am lumping together here because together with price it makes it possible for ordinary people with no experience to dive in and succeed. A lot of people are building MPCNC machines, and people graduate to fancier machines, all the better. There is nothing bad really about the podcast evaluating relative to different goals, but their conclusion is only relevant insofar as their goals are the same.

I’ve been periodically looking at Jubilee, which is basically a clone of E3D’s tool changer, and they are welcoming people who want to try to build one. Between the cost and the complexity it’s a really tall order unless you know for sure you can’t get away with any other system.

I mention that because I think the “DIY” CNC space is only going to get more crowded, but I don’t think it’s going to change the MPCNC world very much. Plenty of people can have clever ideas but most then miss the fact that the idea isn’t what matters. Or they don’t care about wide adoption or they are unwilling to invest, and all these machines will remain a niche within a niche that has almost no overlap with probable MPCNC users.

It doesn’t mean we don’t still continue with improvements. It’s up to us to show what all can be achieved with MPCNC and LR2 and increase the range of optional equipment that can push the envelope even farther.

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Fed up with commentary and evaluation. Everyone has a microphone now and a platform to offer opinions. MPCNC is still my pick for an under $500, decent-sized CNC that is out there and you can totally source the thing on your own. Printing your own parts and buying your own rails is part of the experience that makes one feel they are building something rather than just assembling. That is a big part of this experience.

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Most of the hard to hear part is these guys just hating on all the machines. Yet they are talking about still looking or making another CNC. We all know some of us like to make the machines and some of us like to use them. Are you always making test cuts chasing zeros, or are you just making it work. I think they like to build machines and have not realized they do not like to use them (the hosts). At some point you make do with what you have and just build something. The guys that have 3 table saws, 14 hand planers and do not have a new set of kitchen cabinets come to mind. So sitting around talking bad about all the machines that have overcome some hurdle is rough to hear for me. It is a tool and there is no such thing as a one size fits all machine, learning stuff or using it for stuff, one size does not fit all.

I really just wish Mark embraced his audience instead of the hate towards every other machine out there. That also seems like a strange direction for a podcast, alienate all other CNC’s in one shot. His build requires you to do a lot of manual work to accomplish the build…in steel. Fine, so be it, lots of people have that skill set and the tools to do it. Talk to those people, focus on those people. Saying everything else is crap is the most odd marketing ever. If you own the tools and are not intimidated by working with steel and electronics, heck yes build that machine. I am not in a competition with him I really wish he would stop using “Better than …” to market his machine. Every machine brings something unique to the table, including his. Heck they even talk crap about firmware…then follow it up with…well they all work. Hating just to hate?

Oddly this is my business and my lively hood not a project to fill my creative time or something I plan to ditch and move on from yet I feel a strong sense of community towards all the other CNC machines out there. I am not trying to bring anyone down. Not even a little bit.

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If there’s hip hop I’m not even going to bother clicking the link.

It sounds like a discussion I had a couple days ago with someone.

I talked about how my computers were free because I take them from people throwing them away and put linux on them.

I once bought a desktop system and upgraded everything to the maximum the computer shop had available. I think it was windows 7 at the time and the thing lagged right out of the box. Definitely did what I needed it to do because the project required the fastest windows PC available.

My 3 year old linux machine still ran faster and smoother.

The guy I was talking to went on to explain how it’s easy to get a windows machine that can keep up to a linux one

You just have a shop built it out of the best components commercially available and have a tech partition everything so the bloated windows programs don’t run unless you need them too.

I mean sure, you CAN spend as much on a car to keep up with me if you really want to I guess?

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Well, this is definitely not how I would like to make my First post ever…
I been lurking around for about 9 months, reading, learning enjoying all the wisdom from many of you and learning from it. I place my order from V1 Engineering about 3 weeks ago enough to build 2 MPCNC, well almost… for the second machine forgot to order the control board…witch was ordered last week.

Honestly I don’t see and don’t understand why some individuals need to bash, degrade others to “Try” to make his product (idea) better…I really hate this… I did look at his machine about a month ago, and was not to my like.
The host of the show seems to be an A…Hole… “No machine is good enough for me”
He was not just bashing MPCNC but also a bunch of other machines including Maslow CNC witch was my first CNC and served me will to this day! And still up and running strong.
Yes, like @jamiek said, the market will be more competitive but has no need to diminish the others.
The community is strong, MPCNC is always improving. @vicious1 Ryan, your statement is right on and I totally agree with you.
And No I will not listen to another podcast from the 2 clowns and when my MPCNC is ready I will post Pictures and talk a little more about me.

Thank you!!
Gustavo

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This is why I don’t listen to podcasts. Every self-entitled (word removed to be nice) can say whatever they want in a forum where there’s no way to easily respond.

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Strange place to draw a libe, but ok…

I haven’t listened. From the comments, it sounds like a waste of time. The guy talking crap has his own design, and he’s talking shit about everyone? Sounds like an ad.

Well… on the positive side they all did seem quite impressed with the engineering behind the design of the mpcnc. And they did mention they were leaning heavily toward building a lowrider.

Well it used to say all of that on his website, at least that has been taken down. Maybe he is getting some flack from more than just me about that kind of attitude. Fingers crossed he comes around and joins the DIY CNC community instead of saying nasty things about all our hard work.

I took a listen for about 15 minutes – can’t stand that format, like morning-zoo radio, makes me start rooting for the planet killing asteroids…

Design-wise, it doesn’t look too bad, but frankly I suspect it’s not all that stiff. My guess would be that the 6040 design would perform better hands-down. And I haven’t heard great things about those. The ThreeDesign design seems to rely on quite a few spendy parts (ball screws and linear rails) which would seem to probably push it to 2 to 4 times the cost of an MPCNC… I suspect it probably performs better (meaning can cut faster) than MPCNC, but I doubt it’s 2-4X better. I know, having seen what folks here have built with their machines, that it would (likely) be impossible to produce “better” final projects (so many of the ones shared here, just look great).

Just my opinion - but the real clincher for me giving MPCNC a shot was the low cost of entry. Having quite a few of the necessary components (including the router) already lying around - I doubt I have $250 invested in my setup. Which, for me, was well within the “I’ll give it a shot” price range. Bump that price up to $1K (which is what I think that ThreeDesign would cost to build) and that’s a different story…

Just poking around their website a bit and I’m left with the impression this will be gone in under a year. Lot of talk about community, but I didn’t see much evidence of it (honestly didn’t look that hard though either)…

Bottom line for me - I’m still happy with my choice…

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Yup, completely different design philosophy’s that is why I do not understand the hate. Heck the guy even started with an mpcnc and wanted faster…doesn’t that mean it did the exact job it was designed to do?

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I tried listening, but quit when they said something like, “I looked at the Z parts and I couldn’t figure out how to assemble them”. So, did any of you “experts” actually try it or see it run?

I am also quite skeptical of examples from the profiteers. There are a lot of examples of people here doing good to great things with the MPCNC, but I don’t see the unbiased results from this one. I’m sure we’ve all seem the marketing examples of our worst 3D printer. They don’t really match reality…

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It’s hard. I really want to pick apart a lot of the conversation but there is no reason to. Somehow knowing the MPCNC gave him the motivation to learn CAD and put together a CNC of his own is pretty cool. The host or hosts have made up there mind on a lot of things already so there is no changing that. My CNC does what I want it to, and it didn’t cost me a ton. Icing on the cake all you people seem to enjoy some aspect of it as well.

Doing my best to deal with all this new negativity, and this has been shrugged off in less than 24 hours so I am making progress.

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I kind of got the impression that the guest had some appreciation for the mpcnc but it was the hosts, who never built an mpcnc, that were being stuck up about it.

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I figured that if I was going to spend the money on profiled extruded aluminum and ball screws or linear rails, I would need all the other things that go with that level of infrastructure. One gets into bigger motors, more costly drivers and that is not to talk about the spindle.

As I said before, the cheap rails and printed parts allowed me to stay in a good price range for all the other components and still get the kind of machine to do what I wanted in wood. Haven’t tried the aluminum but I know it’s possible.

My next CNC is going to be an epoxy granite monster mill because if I am going to spend the money on an upgrade, I might as well shoot for the moon.

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Agreed. I find not too many “upgrade” to a $1k machine from here. Then next step seems to be $10k+.

You have a CNC…you can make some pretty serious forms and cast one. Just make darn sure you know what size you need first, not as easy to change sizes.

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It’s hard to overstate how liberating it is when the worst thing that can happen is a very minor setback like a broken bit.

One of these days I’m going to put an angle grinder on the MPCNC. Grit goes everywhere. All the “real” machinists are going to be horrified but deep down a little jealous that they can’t do grinding on their machines.

In my ignorance maybe I will ruin something and have to replace a dozen bearings and the Z leadscrew. Big deal. Still worth it.

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I saw a YouTube the other night busting on the MPCNC. He built it bigger than the suggested 24”x 24” work area, and he had other issues because of his sloppy build and not following the directions nor guidance here. But that didn’t stop him from going on and on how the MPCNC was a toy and only the lightest cuts were possible.

I watched it and was going to comment but then decided that it was best to simply thumbs down and move on.

Anyway my point is that everyone is an “expert” and many will try to convince the world how smart they are. And we can either ignore them, or jump into the mud and try and do something. But at the end of the day, they won’t listen and it’s impossible to change their minds.

In my case, I look at the positive and negative and try and see what valid points people make. In the case I mentioned, I couldn’t find any as it was clear that the guy’s comments were based on a horrible build. And most comments I see are generally positive.

So my view is if someone wants to learn CNC then this is a good project IF you start small, go with the basics and then modify once you have some experience. But what do I know, I’m just an “expert” and didn’t stay at a hotel last night!

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Yup. And there’s plenty of projects on this sight showing what the MPCNC is capable of.

If it was just 2 or 3 people posting successful projects, then you could still have doubt, but we have a forum full of people all having success with the machine. The people not having success are they outliers at this point and it’s important to note that.

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