Occasionally I find that no matter how carefully I work, there are small details (in wood) that aren’t easily reproduced, and so I’d quite like to try laser engraving. I don’t need a system which is capable of cutting. I followed Cap’s build, or more precisely, tried but got lost several times. It seems quite complicated to set up the typical MPCNC electronics with a laser. Things like flashing firmware put me off, as I don’t really have much skill in that area. Additionally, what do I want to achieve? Well I saw this on Etsy and thought it would make a great gift, but I suspect it was created on a high end machine (?).
So, to I go for one of these type of machines, you know the type, cheap, reasonable area, not sure of the quality of work that’s possible. That said, presumably I could move it around and place it on top of larger peices.
One of these K4 types, a more capable machine, but no ability to work on larger pieces.
I should I just have faith, buy a decent laser, and spend some time learning how to get an MPCNC laser system up and running?
Often when I have a situation like this, I already know what I’m going to do. Here, I’m in three minds!
Any help gratefully received
Oh, I have a miniRambo and use Repetier host after inkscape/estlcam.
Engravings like that family tree can be done with a laser diode. They can be done much faster on a CO2 laser. There was a post recently about the glowforge, which is a good turnkey solution, but it is pricey and depends on the cloud. I can’t imagine an easier setup though.
The easiest way to do a diode, IMO, is to get and set up a grbl based board. They do a good job and they have a good track record with lasers. Marlin supposedly does a good job with lasers in the recent releases, but I don’t know if any of the “laser folks” here has checked it.
The simple gantry laser engraver machine you linked is perfectly capable of producing good quality engravings, a K40 machine will just do it quicker and because it is more powerful and operates in a different wavelength has a larger range of possible materials and techniques it can engrave, at the expense of being limited in size and of course initial purchasing cost. You can get 2.5W to about 6W LED Laser modules, the higher the power the quicker the engraving and the better the range of materials you can engrave…obvious really! Anything advertised higher than around 6W for a single LED is quoting you input power…not output power.
I really would advise you use a separate machine for the laser and not just try to strap a laser onto your cnc router, whilst a cnc router is perfectly capable of housing a laser, keeping the firmwares’ specific to the application will prevent a lot of headaches.
Have you considered how you are going to get your ideas from ideas to gcode?..that is where the learning curve is steepest…learning CAD software. Take a look at LightBurn, it is specifically built for laser work.
I use simple 2 axis arduino based boards and GRBL, others implement the third axis to facilitate focusing. I consider Marlin to be excellent for 3d Printers but too bloated with unwanted features for laser work and thus too complicated and, although I have not looked at the recent changes to Marlin, I cannot see the developers redesigning Marlin from the ground up to remove the excess bloat. GRBL and a simple arduino based board works well so why complicate it?
Bloat isn’t really a problem though. Not sure why people keep saying that. Extra software on a microcontroller isn’t like extra software on a laptop. If you just dont turn on the heaters, they don’t affect you.
I never understood bloat unless it added advertising don’t use the features one man’s bloat is another man’s salvation or something like that with the size of Hard drives these days
Bloat is a problem though…it always is. If you over-complicate something with stuff you don’t need then it makes it harder to understand the process you are undertaking. Marlin’s configuration.h is miles more complicated than GRBL’s config, and Marlin has a second configuration page too, they both need close scrutiny in order to setup your machine properly, it is alright for those who know Marlin backwards and sideways but for those who are just starting out or even those mildly proficient in Marlin but can’t remember what they did the last time to fix an errant function then the complexity is a BIG problem. That is why people say that.
Disk space is not the issue. 5403 lines of code that you have to read through and understand is.
Would you drive to work in a JCB digger?..No…you buy a car because it is better suited to the job, just not using the jib on the road is not really an option.
This is exactly the logical fallacy that I’m trying to argue against. This isn’t like your car driving down the highway, and it isn’t like a hard drive. The microcontroller can’t use the extra space for anything else, so assigning some extra order to it makes no difference. Sure, the LCD screen says, “Print” instead of “cut”, but… so?
You’re right that the configuration is long, but it isn’t because it is bloated, it is because it is flexible. And no, you don’t have to understand everything in it. You can completely skip most of it. We change about 20 parameters (and that’s being generous) to go from vanilla Marlin to a V1 configuration.
But my point is that once you’ve configured it, and it is on the microcontroller, having settings for and extruder or a heated bed don’t negatively affect you. They are just ghost towns of bits that don’t get ever get read. It’s not like the “antivirus software” on your laptop, which runs all the time and takes resources away from the programs you want. Or the extra ton of weight you’re dragging with you to work.
I can see the appeal of grbl. I like it. I just think many people apply their judgement of “bloat” to Marlin, which really isn’t the right way to look at it.
Maybe your definition of bloatware is different to mine. I don’t need flexibility in a firmware designed for a specific purpose, I need clarity in operation and ease of faultfinding…just look at all the ‘please help’ messages you are continually answering on Marlin issues. Something that is a nightmare to configure is of no use to those who simply do not understand what the options do.
20 parameters is way too many to just the thing working. KISS principles always win out, and that is another issue right there…how many versions of Marlin are currently being used out there? how many issues occur because someone inadvertently downloads the wrong flavour?.. I see the messages on this board all the time…(expletive deleted)…I was one of them!
3D printers need flexibility, they therefore need the firmware and software complexity and those wanting to dip their toes in that particular water should understand there is a steep learning curve to master, a laser engraver is a pretty simple to operate toy…it’s operating system should be the same, until then, you will see plenty more ‘please help’ requests, and that really is the correct way to look at it.
@dart1280 and @jeffeb3 are both right. And both wrong. The joys of living in the real world…
The complexity of the Marlin configuration files could be flipped around on the axis of managing the complexities of maintaining configurations for multiple firmwares (Marlin for MP3DP, grbl/Klipper/ElstCAM/etc for MPCNC/LR/ZenXY).
If memory serves (and the caching software is way out of date), part of the decision to use Marlin is because the thought was most of the users were likely used to 3D printers, and most likely using some form of Marlin, so the firmware would be familiar. Since then, Marlin has gotten leaps and bounds better for CNC (from what I can tell, it was pretty bad in the beginning), and its laser support is getting better and better.
Those 20 parameters have a lot to do with things like: supporting a screen, Adding the V1 logo, adding a version number, supporting auto squaring, Flipping the endstop direction to support builds with no endstops, steps/mm. Some of these you’d need to do in grbl. Are those features bloat? Because we did work to get some of those features into Marlin, and they seem to be pretty popular features. Your TFT screen is helping you out, but that hasn’t been an option until recently.
I have honestly had more trouble answering questions about grbl 5x than I have with questions on Marlin. There are at least 10x the Marlin users than grbl here, probably closer to 50x. Which is why there are so many questions.
FWIW, I have had a grbl board on my low rider for more time than I have had Marlin boards. But I like to tinker. If I was a 3D printer enthusiast, and I wanted a CNC machine, learing only Marlin would be a relief. Or better yet, just buy the Marlin board from Ryan and don’t even install arduino/platformio.
There is a real problem of Marlin having dozens of developers that focus on 3D printing, and sometimes they create issues for those of us with EXTRUDERS=0. They did have lasers broken for a while, and we just abused the fan port. They claim to have fixed those issues though.
I’m not surprised…So would I, but I don’t use 5X… who uses grbl 5x on a laser machine anyway?..If you find someone ask them WHY? (remember KISS?)
“Some of these you’d need to do in grbl.”…
Errr…no Jeff, not really. No screen required in most laser workflow, No V1 logo, Don’t need a version number as it is printed at boot time, no auto squaring, the laser frame is as square as it is built and can be set square again by loosening the odd screw and retightening, there are few forces acting upon it to drag it out of square and endstops are not really required as the workflow starts from your position of choice…ok…you got me with the steps per mm, but at least you don’t have to re-flash the firmware to change those and they are usually set to the right value for the common iterations of the laser engraver.
I would guess 90% of the time a GRBL laser machine works straight out of the box without having to delve into the intricacies of the firmware.
“Are those features bloat” No…not in a 3D printer, but are they necessary or even wanted for a laser engraver?..No, so I call that bloat…including the screen…until that screen can be sufficiently modified to provide some useful functions that are presented to the user in an efficient and pleasing way without having to wade through 3 pages of useless functions to get to the useful stuff.
“They claim to have fixed those issues though.”
That may very well be true…until the next time a piece of firmware that was written for a very different process falls over when employed for something that it was never designed for…Marlin is full of them,
extruders=0 is but one example.
It’s the same old story…there are those that like to be on the raggedy edge of software and hardware development (and are prepared and skilled enough to stay there) and there are those who prefer to just buy stuff that works out of the box, and it is very easy for each of those groups to loose sight of the other.
Anyway…have your next say…I’ll not reply as this is going nowhere good and the OP Andy must be wondering what is going on.
Insulting people just proves you can’t defend your debating position with facts. Despite attempting to inject humour after the fact.
I want pretty much what most laser engravers want, be able to position the laser head, check the laser focus, check the bounding box and then go. I want those functions available easily without having to re-flash firmware or dig through levels of screens full of useless icons. I don’t see that as wanting just what I want,based on my requirements and the rest of the world be hanged… and last time I checked, GRBL was OSS also but manages to provide functions tailored much more not only to laser engraving but to machining too.
This was designed to be multi use so laser cnc pen 3D printer so marlin can do all that easily for a one shot machine one or the either may be easier that is with everything here marlin is adapted and is working well and GRBL is in the background but still better at some things we help everyone
OK, OK! Mea culpa! You’re right, I was being snide and insulting when I certainly didn’t need to be, and this is one of the times my filter failed me. I was taking what I read as your arguments and taking them to stupid extremes. Which was poor form on two fronts, first in assuming what you were saying, and second, in using a logical fallacy to basically mock you and your posts. I should know better. I do know better, I should do better. Sorry.
Kids, this is what is known as a teachable moment. Don’t do what I did.
@dart1280 I really am sorry, and I did not think my way through what I was typing before hitting “Reply”. I sincerely hope that we can have reasonable conversations in other threads, and I will certainly be spending more time re-reading my posts before sending, especially my less serious posts, to be sure that any snarkiness is not wholly mean-spirited, and/or is appropriate to the tone of the conversation.
or something like that with the size of Hard drives these days
