New Build in Portland Oregon

Wgreen92 · February 10, 2020, 9:55pm

Hello all,

Figured I would start a build log as I expect to start the build here in a couple of days.
Just gathering parts and prepping at the moment. I plan to record and post a video on the build process and hopefully use it as one of the videos to kick off a new maker channel.

Build goals:

Be able to carve/cut wood and aluminum.
A multi-purpose machine, router, laser (diode), pen plotter and drag knife.
Auto tool change (phase 2)
At least 12"x12" working area (I plan to build a 4’x8’ in the upcoming months, lowrider?) preferably as large as I can go while meeting goals.

Design decisions so far:
-Color scheme black and neon green
-Parts printed with SunLu Pla + (Amazon 2kg $33)
-3/4" conduit
-DEWALT DW660
-Creality 12V Laser (for CR-10, had on hand)

Decisions to make: (Suggestions?)
-Final sizing
-Amazon drag knife vs 3d printed one using a standard razor blade.
-Table base design
-Main Board (Currently have on hand a CNC shield and uno, Ramps 1.4 v3 and mega, and a skr 1.3)
-Driver selection (Currently have on hand A4988, DVR8825 and 2208 v3)
-Motors Buy two more 84oz 1.7 (have 3) or use the 1.5A 69oz that I have in stock.

Supplies
-Hardware has all arrived (need 5 bolts from local hardware shop still)
-All the electronics I had on hand. (Although I have two separate types of nema 17s, 3 1.7A 84 oz.in, and 3 1.5A 5kg/cm(69oz in?))
-3d Prints are down to the last two-bed fulls of parts and one printer broke down on me so about 30hrs left on print time.
-Have some 2x4 and ply on hand to make a workbench for it?

If you have any suggestions, questions or comments I’d love to hear them! I’ll be updating this log over the next couple of days with updates and pictures.

kizmit99 · February 11, 2020, 12:58am

Ryan has a vinyl cutter in the shop that is pretty inexpensive ($10 I think, with blades under $1 each). That and a printed mount for it may meet your needs?

I’m pretty sure either of those three could be made to work. The Ramps + Mega is likely the path of least resistance at the moment. Any of those drivers should work fine for MPCNC.

I think you’d be in good shape to just use what you have. just be sure to use the two 1.5A motors on a single axis (X or Y). If you don’t drive them independantly, then you’ll want to drive them in series and being matched will be important (I think).

So - I’ll ask you this, just because… Do you have any reason for filling up your print bed when printing parts like this? I used to take that approach, but one failed print (which tends to end up ruining all the parts on the bed) was enough to convince to just print one part at a time. Seems like the only downside to doing them one at a time is have to visit the printer between each part. Just curious…

Good luck with your build!

scrounge79 · February 11, 2020, 5:37am

You are pretty organized there. Keep posting. I’m always interested in the build process. And as @kizmit99 mentioned, you certainly have some confidence in your Ender. That’s great! I did all the ZenXY with a full bed, but I just couldn’t trust my printers at the time I was doing the MPCNC to not fail on a long job. I have since fixed a few issues on the Prusa and upgraded the extruder setup for the Creality and knock on wood haven’t had a failed print in quite a while.

Wgreen92 · February 11, 2020, 9:26am

Thanks for the response!

I had no idea, ill have to take a look!

Yeah all three should do the job adequately. I still need to look up the differences between the DVR8825 and 2208 to see if there is any extra functionality I could use in either of them to benefit the application.

Knowing me id probably forget to do this, thanks! I agree probably the best way with current parts, I may just grab a couple extra to match the set, I want to try out metals and cut out some parts later on.

Ive wondered about this, I think overkill in this situation but how would you wire say 5,6+ motors independently? I would assume there is no way of connecting multiple ramp type boards and you would need a specialty main board that could control that many motors, correct?

Well main reason is I am working full time and refinishing a kitchen in the evenings while preparing for this build so continuous = efficiency. Beyond just the number of prints I have done to gain familiarity with my printers most print errors are easy to fix and resume. I run octoprint with a plugin that lets me cancel one part in the bunch if something goes wrong and it will continue to print the rest. I have remote view / kill switch for the printer and if something does go astray most times you can clean it up, find ending z height before failure, modify gcode and resume from there. Its a gamble but its been working out! Load up both enders and let them rip for 40 hours xD.

Wgreen92 · February 11, 2020, 9:26am

I try to act it

They have been great printers for me so far. A couple little things I have had to do to get it diled in but for the price its a great machine. I have made a few additions to it though to really justify the added risk of a full bed like this, see above reply!

kizmit99 · February 11, 2020, 2:27pm

The Ramps and Rambo boards have 5 stepper drivers on them. For the MPCNC you can either drive each motor independently (2 for X, 2 for Y, 1 for Z), or you can wire the 2 X (and Y) motors in series which only requires a single driver for each axis (so 3 drivers total). Ryan’s firmware updates deal with slaving the paired drivers for the first case - as long as your interface board supports at least 5 drivers.

I don’t know of any boards that support more than 5 drivers - but I’m sure they exist somewhere. I’ve not heard of anyone slaving two Ramps together to get more drivers. The way they connect to the Mega would likely make that far more pain than it’s worth…

Heath_H · February 11, 2020, 2:43pm

@Wgreen92 Nice work on getting your Ender dialed in well enough to run that full set of parts on the bed like that. I think I have mine to that level as well at this point, but I have been sufficiently freaked out by the safety police online about not being home when my printer is running. Fires and everything, which has never been a problem even after hundreds of hours of printing at this point but I guess I’m a wussy pants at this point, lol. I have a dog and 3 cats and when I think about them it pushes me over the edge to the point where I won’t be gone longer than a couple hours if the printer is running and no one else is home.

Also, feel you on the reno stuff, just finished my new backsplash this weekend (still need to grout and caulk…) Next is paint touch up and floor, then finally can get to building a table for the cnc.

NVTS · February 11, 2020, 2:45pm

Question: How many hours and material cost for printing the parts?

I do not have a 3d printer and was going to order them from Ryan instead. I am just curious as I have watched videos and read posts, but have not see how much Pla is being used and the cost.

Thank you

Heath_H · February 11, 2020, 2:48pm

The Parts page on Ryan’s site I have heard is pretty accurate for both time and material used. So basically 2 kg of filament (which I found quite accurate).

The time one for me was a little off, I print fairly slow to ensure/make it more likely that I end up with good parts (too much frustration on getting bad parts). So my times were quite a bit longer than what Ryan has up on the site.

Heath_H · February 11, 2020, 2:48pm

Link for you:

https://www.v1engineering.com/blog/parts/

NVTS · February 11, 2020, 2:54pm

Thank you. I just found it. I have been reading the forum more than the site. I will spend more time on the site now.

Cheers…

merrittgene · February 11, 2020, 5:44pm

I have the RAMBO 1.4a that @vicious1 flashed…is there a way to run it with each stepper on it’s own drive (5 drivers) instead of the standard three driver configuration? Does one approach have an advantage over the other when I’m using a board that has enough drivers?

Will I ever have a use for the unused drivers later on?

I haven’t done my wiring yet, so this is the time to ask…

kizmit99 · February 11, 2020, 6:00pm

You would likely have to reflash the board, using the “Dual Endstop” version of the firmware. Note – you do not have to actually install/use the dual endstops if you install this firmware, it will give you the multi-motor per axis capability though.

I know that Ryan doesn’t recommend starting in a dual endstop config, because it is just more work to get setup and running the first time. But, it really isn’t that much more difficult (reflashing the controller, installing the endstop switches and wires). If you think you will want/use the dual endstop (auto-squaring) capability, I would recommend just wiring it that way from the start. I did not, and ended up having to rewire my machine. It wasn’t horrible, but it was rework.

If you don’t plan on using the auto-squaring capability, then either way is fine (and series wiring with Ryan’s pre-made cables) is arguably “easier” to setup the first time.

I doubt it on an MPCNC… Although, I guess if you wanted to turn it into a 3D printer I guess you would need another driver for the filament feeder…

Yep - now’s the time to decide which route you want to take. If you’re certain you (eventually) want auto-squaring I would say go ahead and plan on separate drivers and dual endstops. If you’re not sure, just plan to do milling of signs, etc then take the easiest route and do series wiring. If you change your mind later it’s only a matter of rewiring.

Probably worth repeating: Ryan generally recommends starting with the series wiring and no endstops. It’s just a simpler setup to begin with and you’re more likely to get up and running quicker with less frustration for everyone involved (mostly you and him )… I am only throwing out that auto-squaring capability is awesome (IMO) and it is something that I found a need for almost immediately. You mileage may of course vary…

Best of luck with your build!

jeffeb3 · February 11, 2020, 6:34pm

I would also recommend starting with the series. In the series configuration, the doubled motors will always move in lock step. In a dual endstop configuration, they will always move in lock step, except when homing, where one motor may need to travel a little farther to reach it’s endstop, so it will square itself. After the homing, they are identical.

If you have the series wiring, or you just don’t want to mess with the dual endstops while running dual endstop firmware, you should have a procedure to hold the gantry square while enabling the motors. They will start square, and move in lock step, staying square. The other alternative is to just make art, and not really care about how square it is. You can have a lot of fun and make a lot of projects this way.

Wgreen92 · February 21, 2020, 9:48pm

Hey everyone, time for an update!

First, thank you, everyone, for the compliments on the ender, and happy to note all parts printed without a problem! No idea how much actual print time or filament was used. I just kept filling the bed when the last one was done until they were all printed.

Some final decisions were made and I have completed the build-up to wiring stage.

Decisions made:

-Final sizing. I decided to go with a 2’x2’ (610x610mm) working area and give up on the idea of aluminum at this point. There is just too much I want to learn ( wood carving, plotting, engraving) and experiment with and aluminum is something I think ill rebuild for and attack after I get some basics down. The final outer dimension of 35"x35" (889x889mm), Z work height of 4" or 101mm.

-Drag knife I went with one exactly like what Ryan has here. but ill probably be trying out a few models and will report back later what one I like most.

-Table design I decided to just build one with the same design I built my GF’s clay throwing table. I took outer dimension and added a couple of inches here and there for drag chains and a small work area, eyeballed the height so I didn’t have to bend over to watch it carve and boom, the table turned out giant… I guess its great extra storage or a future enclosure for some printers lol. (pictures below)

Mainboard and drivers. Now that this project is my new baby that I’m interested in I stripped the half working delta and re-purposed the Big Tree Tech skr 1.3 mainboard and 2208 V3 drivers to this project. Overkill but I had them. Planning on running UART config for this so I can change and monitor driver parameters in software.
I bought some new motors. I have enough projects that I can re-purpose the originally re-purposed motors that I was going to use xD. Now using 5x Nema 17 Bipolar 59Ncm (84oz.in) 2A for this build.

-I decided ill go with dual end stops, at-least wire everything up now, so that it’ll only be a firmware update to swap between them or not.

-Planning on running marlin 2.0 as of right now. i have the most experience with it but open to switching it up if something else offers better features or control over the machine.

The build went relatively easy so far. Documentation is great on here, can’t thank Ryan enough!

I did decide to smooth out my emt with some 220. Barrings I never did end up cleaning from the factory, they were all greased up and I just wanted to build lol, ill probably regret that later but test rolled them all as they went in and they seemed to be working good. I printed mid-span supports and some additional feet thinking I would use them but from what I’ve seen so far as long as I stay away from aluminum I should be good at this size. Correct me if I’m wrong. I have them if I want to add em later.

Questions still needing answers or decisions.

My motors run Rated Current/phase: 2.0A and my drivers are Phase Current: 1.2A RMS, 2.0A Peak. I’ve been suggested to run them at 1A for safety. Debating what to set these to and or if I should pick up some 2209s to get a bit closer to the 2A limit, maybe 1.5A. Any suggestions here would be great.

Motors - Amazon

Board & Drivers - Amazon

-What microsteps to run my motors at. 2208s go up to 1/256 microsteps but from my understanding the more microsteps you go the better the resolution/smoothness of motor operation but also a decrease in holding torque? Also with UART I though there is some fancy stuff for switching this on the fly depending if the motor needs it based off its torque vs hard coding it. Idk more research is needed here. Also, stealth chop 2 / spread cycle idk if I should have these features on or not.

Need to extend my motor cables, I have some 20g wire I bought for LEDs, I think this will work. Worried about all these interference problems I’m seeing with not enough insulation in the wiring. would this work? should I get shielded? Bigger gauge wire?
Wire - Amazon
Debating on what connectors to buy for right off the motor to the wiring harness. I feel like ill want a plug instead of hardwiring motors straight back to board.

-Debating on the surface for the, threw down some 1/4" ply since I had it around but might swap it for some 3/4 mdf or something to try and get it a more flat surface. Plotting and laser will be the first couple of jobs with this guy before I break out into wood carving. Any recommendations here?

That’s all I got right now, at lunch at the moment. I’ll update later this weekend with more choices and build updates. BTW Kitchen remodel is pretty much done!

! IMG_20200220_203346|666x500,50%

Wgreen92 · February 24, 2020, 11:19am

Update:

I decided to get 3/4" MDF for top surface and replaced the table top moving the old 1/4 ply down to the bottom shelf of the table. The MDF came slightly larger then my table so I cut it down to size on one edge then let the 1 inch hang off the back. Everything else is square with legs and base. Create a nice wire hiding spot for the X axis.

All motors and end-stops are wired back to a temp working spot. Using a cheap wire sleving from HD, works pretty well actually as a quick wiring job. Used the tape measure trick for the Z. Future note to self, label female pins for everything as you go. After finishing up all cable runs it makes it hard to tell whats what with multiple motors coming together on a axis.

-End stops are all wired correctly and working great. All show open unless compressed. GND = N, S = NC. X=Xmin, X2=Xmax, Y=Ymin, Y2=Ymax.

-Steppers currently not configured right and or plugged in wrong. Y+/Y- moves Y but not Y2 (and or very small ammount. Same with X, X2 does not move) Z does not move. Although through swapping plugs all motors have proved to be working.

-SKR 1.3 with 2208 UART has proven to be a royal pain in the butt. I could not get the MPCNC_Ramps_T8_16T_LCD_32step_DualEndstop to compile at all in VSCode/PIO. Even after swapping PIO.ini env and board designation. I tryed a few diffrent firmwares off the forums here with each having there own issues compiling. (Stock marlin compiles just fine.) Ended up getting TT Lowrider SKR1.3 to compile after applying some fixes found here. ICT Avatar advice

I then found Glens SKR Firmware and merged changes that made since with my new version that compiled.

Currently I have a firmware that compiles although my LCD reads out “TMC Connection Error”. All end stops working fine as mentioned above and control over some stepper motors as mentioned above. All motors are rated for 2.0A, trying to control Vref over UART, I have not touched the manual on chip Vref.

Build is pretty complete for now. After I get everything working ill build a box and clean up the wiring to board.

I would love any help or advice you can give on getting the BTT SKR 1.3 + BTT 2208 V3 + UART working with dual end end stops for X,X2,Y,Y2,Z. Current Firmware configs are the ones linked here

mike1024 · February 24, 2020, 12:13pm

I needed to revert to an older version of the tmc drivers library (1.5, I think, vs 1.6, I can check when I get home) to get it to compile with Ryan’s firmware on the same board.

Are you powering the board with USB? That’s one way to get the “TMC not connected” error. That doesn’t go away until you connect to the power supply.

I like the skr 1.3, have the same board in my 3D printer and have no complaints. If you’re still having trouble, I can upload my settings.

Wgreen92 · February 24, 2020, 6:04pm

Thanks, A upload of a working config would be great!

I did find Error LPC176X has not been defined
and replaced TMCStepper@>=0.5.2,<0.5.3 and changed paths in PIO.ini

That did help somethings along the way, I still was not able to get mpcnc official dual end-stops for ramps working.

In my current config that is compiling I started with TMCStepper@>=0.5.2,<0.5.3 but was able to swap it back to TMCStepper@<1.0.0 and compile with no problems.

Official MPCNC ramps 1.4 dual end stop was the first thing I tried so I can’t remember what it was that I could not get past but if there is interest ill download it again and record my problems

Wgreen92 · February 26, 2020, 11:23am

3:14 am update, work at 8.

I decided since I like spending all my money on this stuff I would pick up some new 2209’s. Added functionality, more current for my beefy lil 17’s.

2208 and setting up firmware was already giving me problems. Why not?

Got the 2209s today and after hours of trying to compile other people firmware setups and trying to compare and contrast between them and match up versions I said screw it and started fresh from Ryans MPCNC_Ramps_T8_16T_LCD_32step_DualEndstop

It worked! Currently have everything working correctly, all motors in sync and working, xy directions, UART, endstops and trigger status, homing using endstops (dont home z not fun).

I have all my end stop blocks as close as a 3am wood scrap can be.

This forum has been incredibly helpful in this journey so far. I rarely have to post looking for answers because there is such a wealth of trial and error documented here. Makes the process a lot easier. Thank you all for paving the way!

Calling it a night tonight by attaching the pen mount, hopefully tomorrow brings some crowns!

Wgreen92 · February 27, 2020, 6:14pm

It’s alive!

Test printing (carving?) the crown!
Everything seems to be working as expected so far! Question you will see in here some areas it goes slow and controlled, some areas it just speeds off real quick. Doesn’t affect output quality too much. Before I start diving into settings, anyone has recommendations or bets on what it might be or what to check?

Honestly, this is one of my favorite stages of a build beyond the final stage just making stuff. Right after its all started working and you get to start fine-tuning it till its perfect.